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Karen Watson, E-Mail 21.10.2013
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| | Dear Thore- I certainly understand being busy...between work and family responsibilities, some days I feel like I'm constantly running and getting nowhere. I, too, was surprised that an email address posted in 1999 was still valid! I thought for sure that I was going to just get a bounce back message saying the email was not deliverable. This email should contain embedded photos. If for some reason the photos don't come through, let me know, and I will resend as attachments. Let me give you what I have on Elmrich Seibrands (Emma Siebrands). First, the only photo that I know of her, probably taken in the early 1900's You know her date of birth from her birth certificate. She married Theodore Niemann (DOB 11/10/1861) before 1885, but I do not know the date. I know she had at least two children in Germany before she left for America, but they either were stillborn ordied as babies. Theodore came to the United States in 1885 and settled in Philadelphia. He worked for several years before he got enough money to bring Emma over. Emma arrived in 1889. Attached is a letter of reference she either brought over or had mailed to her shortly after she arrived. I don't think it gives any additional family information, but you can try to read it. I have no idea what it says, as I do not know German, nor can I read the handwriting to even attempt to run it through something like google translate to figure it out. I just have been told it was a letter written by her employer in Germany. I believe she was a family caregiver. Emma had two children, both born in Philadelphia: Theodore Niemann *August 23, 1891 +June 15, 1966 Emma Niemann *May 15, 1893 +May 1975 Emma Siebrand's husband Theodore died August 14, 1893 of pneumonia, leaving Emma with a 2 year old and infant with no source of income. She spoke little English (and never really learned to speak much English). She had to place the two children in a Lutheran Orphanage / Asylum so that she could work as a housekeeper/caretaker. She visited the children every Sunday, so they knew they were not abandoned. As soon as young Theodore was old enough to work, he left the orphanage, began working and was able,with the help of his mother, to buy a home and pull his sister out of the orphanage. He took care of his mother until her death on April 10, 1940. It was only after her death that he married Rosalie Kirst. Theodore Niemann and Rosalie Kirst are my grandparents. My mother, Rosalie, was born in 1943. I never met Theodore, as he died before I was born. Theodore was drafted in World War I. Below is him in his uniform. Theodore later in life became a Philadelphia police officer and worked as a cop until he retired. His sister, Emma, was a dressmaker. Below is her photo, taken later in life: Emma married John McCloskey and had 4 children- Lucy, Phyllis, Patricia and Thomas. All married and had children, but I honestly don't know how many, because my mother hasn't kept in touch with Tom's family. But between Lucy, Pat, and Phyllis there were9 children. I have 4 siblings, so I guess that makes for Emma Siebrands: 2 children 5 grandchildren At least 14 great grandchildren and who knows how many ggg.....I have 3 children..my oldest is a boy and a senior in high school and applying for college next year. He is 18. I also have 2 daughters, age 15 and 11. As I believe I mentioned before, we live about 30 minutes outside ofPhiladelphia in Pennsylvania near the state of Delaware border. I am meeting soon with one of Emma Niemann McCloskey's grandchildren to share some of the family information that I have found. If you have any additional Siebrand information, I would love to know it. If you know anything about the town where Emma wasborn, I'd love to hear about it too. Again, all I know is they were poor. I do know Emma Siebrand wrote to family in Germany, but I have no idea who she maintained contact with, nor does my mother. I do know that a descendant of Djuerke Ulferts Siebrands has a tree on Ancestry.com. Is that your tree? I didn't think it was since that tree is missing Vollina. This person's family tree does have a photo of d'Juerke Ulferts Siebrands and Karl Siebrands, and appears to be a descendant of Karl. Hope to hear from you soon, Karen |
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Karen Watson, E-Mail 21.10.2013
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| | Dear Thore- I certainly understand being busy...between work and family responsibilities, some days I feel like I'm constantly running and getting nowhere. I, too, was surprised that an email address posted in 1999 was still valid! I thought for sure that I was going to just get a bounce back message saying the email was not deliverable. This email should contain embedded photos. If for some reason the photos don't come through, let me know, and I will resend as attachments. Let me give you what I have on Elmrich Seibrands (Emma Siebrands). First, the only photo that I know of her, probably taken in the early 1900's You know her date of birth from her birth certificate. She married Theodore Niemann (DOB 11/10/1861) before 1885, but I do not know the date. I know she had at least two children in Germany before she left for America, but they either were stillborn ordied as babies. Theodore came to the United States in 1885 and settled in Philadelphia. He worked for several years before he got enough money to bring Emma over. Emma arrived in 1889. Attached is a letter of reference she either brought over or had mailed to her shortly after she arrived. I don't think it gives any additional family information, but you can try to read it. I have no idea what it says, as I do not know German, nor can I read the handwriting to even attempt to run it through something like google translate to figure it out. I just have been told it was a letter written by her employer in Germany. I believe she was a family caregiver. Emma had two children, both born in Philadelphia: Theodore Niemann *August 23, 1891 +June 15, 1966 Emma Niemann *May 15, 1893 +May 1975 Emma Siebrand's husband Theodore died August 14, 1893 of pneumonia, leaving Emma with a 2 year old and infant with no source of income. She spoke little English (and never really learned to speak much English). She had to place the two children in a Lutheran Orphanage / Asylum so that she could work as a housekeeper/caretaker. She visited the children every Sunday, so they knew they were not abandoned. As soon as young Theodore was old enough to work, he left the orphanage, began working and was able,with the help of his mother, to buy a home and pull his sister out of the orphanage. He took care of his mother until her death on April 10, 1940. It was only after her death that he married Rosalie Kirst. Theodore Niemann and Rosalie Kirst are my grandparents. My mother, Rosalie, was born in 1943. I never met Theodore, as he died before I was born. Theodore was drafted in World War I. Below is him in his uniform. Theodore later in life became a Philadelphia police officer and worked as a cop until he retired. His sister, Emma, was a dressmaker. Below is her photo, taken later in life: Emma married John McCloskey and had 4 children- Lucy, Phyllis, Patricia and Thomas. All married and had children, but I honestly don't know how many, because my mother hasn't kept in touch with Tom's family. But between Lucy, Pat, and Phyllis there were9 children. I have 4 siblings, so I guess that makes for Emma Siebrands: 2 children 5 grandchildren At least 14 great grandchildren and who knows how many ggg.....I have 3 children..my oldest is a boy and a senior in high school and applying for college next year. He is 18. I also have 2 daughters, age 15 and 11. As I believe I mentioned before, we live about 30 minutes outside ofPhiladelphia in Pennsylvania near the state of Delaware border. I am meeting soon with one of Emma Niemann McCloskey's grandchildren to share some of the family information that I have found. If you have any additional Siebrand information, I would love to know it. If you know anything about the town where Emma wasborn, I'd love to hear about it too. Again, all I know is they were poor. I do know Emma Siebrand wrote to family in Germany, but I have no idea who she maintained contact with, nor does my mother. I do know that a descendant of Djuerke Ulferts Siebrands has a tree on Ancestry.com. Is that your tree? I didn't think it was since that tree is missing Vollina. This person's family tree does have a photo of d'Juerke Ulferts Siebrands and Karl Siebrands, and appears to be a descendant of Karl. Hope to hear from you soon, Karen |
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Karen Watson, E-Mail 21.10.2013
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| | Dear Thore- I certainly understand being busy...between work and family responsibilities, some days I feel like I'm constantly running and getting nowhere. I, too, was surprised that an email address posted in 1999 was still valid! I thought for sure that I was going to just get a bounce back message saying the email was not deliverable. This email should contain embedded photos. If for some reason the photos don't come through, let me know, and I will resend as attachments. Let me give you what I have on Elmrich Seibrands (Emma Siebrands). First, the only photo that I know of her, probably taken in the early 1900's You know her date of birth from her birth certificate. She married Theodore Niemann (DOB 11/10/1861) before 1885, but I do not know the date. I know she had at least two children in Germany before she left for America, but they either were stillborn ordied as babies. Theodore came to the United States in 1885 and settled in Philadelphia. He worked for several years before he got enough money to bring Emma over. Emma arrived in 1889. Attached is a letter of reference she either brought over or had mailed to her shortly after she arrived. I don't think it gives any additional family information, but you can try to read it. I have no idea what it says, as I do not know German, nor can I read the handwriting to even attempt to run it through something like google translate to figure it out. I just have been told it was a letter written by her employer in Germany. I believe she was a family caregiver. Emma had two children, both born in Philadelphia: Theodore Niemann *August 23, 1891 +June 15, 1966 Emma Niemann *May 15, 1893 +May 1975 Emma Siebrand's husband Theodore died August 14, 1893 of pneumonia, leaving Emma with a 2 year old and infant with no source of income. She spoke little English (and never really learned to speak much English). She had to place the two children in a Lutheran Orphanage / Asylum so that she could work as a housekeeper/caretaker. She visited the children every Sunday, so they knew they were not abandoned. As soon as young Theodore was old enough to work, he left the orphanage, began working and was able,with the help of his mother, to buy a home and pull his sister out of the orphanage. He took care of his mother until her death on April 10, 1940. It was only after her death that he married Rosalie Kirst. Theodore Niemann and Rosalie Kirst are my grandparents. My mother, Rosalie, was born in 1943. I never met Theodore, as he died before I was born. Theodore was drafted in World War I. Below is him in his uniform. Theodore later in life became a Philadelphia police officer and worked as a cop until he retired. His sister, Emma, was a dressmaker. Below is her photo, taken later in life: Emma married John McCloskey and had 4 children- Lucy, Phyllis, Patricia and Thomas. All married and had children, but I honestly don't know how many, because my mother hasn't kept in touch with Tom's family. But between Lucy, Pat, and Phyllis there were9 children. I have 4 siblings, so I guess that makes for Emma Siebrands: 2 children 5 grandchildren At least 14 great grandchildren and who knows how many ggg.....I have 3 children..my oldest is a boy and a senior in high school and applying for college next year. He is 18. I also have 2 daughters, age 15 and 11. As I believe I mentioned before, we live about 30 minutes outside ofPhiladelphia in Pennsylvania near the state of Delaware border. I am meeting soon with one of Emma Niemann McCloskey's grandchildren to share some of the family information that I have found. If you have any additional Siebrand information, I would love to know it. If you know anything about the town where Emma wasborn, I'd love to hear about it too. Again, all I know is they were poor. I do know Emma Siebrand wrote to family in Germany, but I have no idea who she maintained contact with, nor does my mother. I do know that a descendant of Djuerke Ulferts Siebrands has a tree on Ancestry.com. Is that your tree? I didn't think it was since that tree is missing Vollina. This person's family tree does have a photo of d'Juerke Ulferts Siebrands and Karl Siebrands, and appears to be a descendant of Karl. Hope to hear from you soon, Karen |
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Karen Watson, E-Mail 15.11.2013
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| | Dear Thore, I wanted to forward to you the records that I got released from the orphanage that my grandfather Theodore and his sister Emma resided after their father died and Emma Siebrands Niemann could no longer take care of them. It provides Emma Siebrands date and place of marriage to Theodore, which was in Bremen. Now that I know where Theodore Niemann's family is from, I might be able to find out more about my Niemann side. I googled the Rugen Islands....looks like a very nice place now. Note the spelling on Theodor...according to my mother her father spelled his name as "Theodore" with an "e" and his father did not use the "e". Also 8/23/1891 is the correct date of birth for my grandfather (see below the two dates) Again all dates are in the mm/dd/yyyy format. I'm still going through everything, but I thought you might like to see this too. -Karen -----Original Message----- Sent: Thu, Nov 14, 2013 7:13 pm Subject: RE: The Niemanns To: Karen Watson Greetings. Thanks for your email verifying that Emma and Theodore Niemann have died. Therefore, we can share with you the little information we have. Some items however, if you do not know about them already, may be of interest for genealogical purposes. Ill list the information for each of the two children. Of course, some items will be the same for both. THEODOR NIEMANN When admitted? 12/13/1897 Confirmed in the Lutheran Home Chapel 6/1/1903 by the Rev. A. Linsz Born: 8/23/1891 (one place says 8/31/1891); Philadelphia, PA Baptized 10/25/1893 by the Rev. Dr. J.E. Nidecker, Lutheran, Phildelphia (Dr. Nidecker also happened to be the head of the Lutheran Home Board of Trustees.) Relatives and Residence Father: Theodor Niemann; born in Insel Ruegen, Germany. A locksmith. Died 8//14/1893 of consumption in Philadelphia, age 33 years. (Note: Insel Ruegen is the Ruegen Islands which are on the north shore of Germany going into the Baltic Sea---just below Sweden.) Mother: Emma nee Siebrands (Siebrandt). Born Norden, Ost Friesland. Age 37 years. (Note: Norden is on the coast of Germany going into the North Sea, just to the east of Holland.) Father/Mother married 10/20/1889 by Pastor Koch in Bremen, Germany. From whom the child was received: the Mother, who lived at 1128 Fairmont Avenue, Philadelphia When Indentured: 12/20/1897---at age 6 years, 3 months, 27 days. (Note: An indenture transferred the rights of the parents to the institution while the child was placed therein. Unless cancelled, it could last until age 21 for boys and 18 for girls.) Diseases: Measles and Whooping Cough (the child had these previously) Vaccinated? Yes---10/22/1901 Departure: Indenture cancelled by Mother, 6/28/1905 Parents last residence---1013 N. 2nd Street, Philadelphia Nearest Relative: The Mother Parents members of a church? Attended services at Zion Church, Philadelphia (Dr. Nidecker was the pastor there.) Step Father or Mother? No. Child healthy? Yes. Subject to scrofula, epileptic, or other like ailments? No. Child entitled to any property? No. Does Mother have any means of support for the child? None. EMMA NIEMANN When admitted? 12/13/1897 Born 5/15/1893. Philadelphia, PA Baptized 10/25/1893 by the Rev. Dr. J.E. Nidecker, Lutheran, Philadelphia Relatives/residence-----the same as Theodor From whom received-----the same as Theodor When Indentured: 12/20/1897----7 years, 7 months, 5 days (Note: there is an obvious error here---it would be 4 years!) Diseases: Measles & Whooping Cough Vaccinated? Yes---10/22/1901 Departure: Indenture cancelled by Mother, 7/15/1905 That is the extent of the information available. Where only basic detail appears, it generally indicates that the children did OK in the institution, and obviously, Mothers situation must have improved so she was in a position to have the children backwith her. In those days, whenever a parent, particularly the Mother, was living and got into a position where it was reasonable that the children be returned, that was the expectation. Institutions like this were at that time pure charities---no government funding or support, only contributions, gifts in kind, bequests, etc. We should note that in the numerical list of children admitted to the institution, beginning in 1859, they were numbers 656 and 657. Today, we are somewhere over 5,000 in the number of children served! We hope this information will be helpful to you and we are pleased to be of service. Best wishes in your continuing research. John Peterson, Records Manager |
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Karen Watson, E-Mail 21.10.2013
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| | Dear Thore- I certainly understand being busy...between work and family responsibilities, some days I feel like I'm constantly running and getting nowhere. I, too, was surprised that an email address posted in 1999 was still valid! I thought for sure that I was going to just get a bounce back message saying the email was not deliverable. This email should contain embedded photos. If for some reason the photos don't come through, let me know, and I will resend as attachments. Let me give you what I have on Elmrich Seibrands (Emma Siebrands). First, the only photo that I know of her, probably taken in the early 1900's You know her date of birth from her birth certificate. She married Theodore Niemann (DOB 11/10/1861) before 1885, but I do not know the date. I know she had at least two children in Germany before she left for America, but they either were stillborn ordied as babies. Theodore came to the United States in 1885 and settled in Philadelphia. He worked for several years before he got enough money to bring Emma over. Emma arrived in 1889. Attached is a letter of reference she either brought over or had mailed to her shortly after she arrived. I don't think it gives any additional family information, but you can try to read it. I have no idea what it says, as I do not know German, nor can I read the handwriting to even attempt to run it through something like google translate to figure it out. I just have been told it was a letter written by her employer in Germany. I believe she was a family caregiver. Emma had two children, both born in Philadelphia: Theodore Niemann *August 23, 1891 +June 15, 1966 Emma Niemann *May 15, 1893 +May 1975 Emma Siebrand's husband Theodore died August 14, 1893 of pneumonia, leaving Emma with a 2 year old and infant with no source of income. She spoke little English (and never really learned to speak much English). She had to place the two children in a Lutheran Orphanage / Asylum so that she could work as a housekeeper/caretaker. She visited the children every Sunday, so they knew they were not abandoned. As soon as young Theodore was old enough to work, he left the orphanage, began working and was able,with the help of his mother, to buy a home and pull his sister out of the orphanage. He took care of his mother until her death on April 10, 1940. It was only after her death that he married Rosalie Kirst. Theodore Niemann and Rosalie Kirst are my grandparents. My mother, Rosalie, was born in 1943. I never met Theodore, as he died before I was born. Theodore was drafted in World War I. Below is him in his uniform. Theodore later in life became a Philadelphia police officer and worked as a cop until he retired. His sister, Emma, was a dressmaker. Below is her photo, taken later in life: Emma married John McCloskey and had 4 children- Lucy, Phyllis, Patricia and Thomas. All married and had children, but I honestly don't know how many, because my mother hasn't kept in touch with Tom's family. But between Lucy, Pat, and Phyllis there were9 children. I have 4 siblings, so I guess that makes for Emma Siebrands: 2 children 5 grandchildren At least 14 great grandchildren and who knows how many ggg.....I have 3 children..my oldest is a boy and a senior in high school and applying for college next year. He is 18. I also have 2 daughters, age 15 and 11. As I believe I mentioned before, we live about 30 minutes outside ofPhiladelphia in Pennsylvania near the state of Delaware border. I am meeting soon with one of Emma Niemann McCloskey's grandchildren to share some of the family information that I have found. If you have any additional Siebrand information, I would love to know it. If you know anything about the town where Emma wasborn, I'd love to hear about it too. Again, all I know is they were poor. I do know Emma Siebrand wrote to family in Germany, but I have no idea who she maintained contact with, nor does my mother. I do know that a descendant of Djuerke Ulferts Siebrands has a tree on Ancestry.com. Is that your tree? I didn't think it was since that tree is missing Vollina. This person's family tree does have a photo of d'Juerke Ulferts Siebrands and Karl Siebrands, and appears to be a descendant of Karl. Hope to hear from you soon, Karen |
Thore
Siebrands
